Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions

Reisen

Escapism will always lead to negative life outcomes compared against learning strategies for coping, improving your mindset, and making actual changes to your life to improve living conditions.

isnt tulpamancy sorta escapism though like to create a person just because you need a friend or something

it really depends on who does it and for what purpose. I wouldn't make such a scathing generalization.

3:02 AM

Exactly.

3:03 AM

Lucid dreaming is just dreaming while you're aware you're dreaming - you were going to be dreaming anyways..

@Reisen - jump Don't some people also shift whilst asleep?

that's what i was planning on doing since i wouldn't want to waste time while i'm awake

Besides, I see lucid dreaming as an unhealthy coping mechanism for myself, in some ways. Making my dreams more desirable than reality.

3:04 AM

It really is subjective, it all depends on the person's reasons for doing it. Don't assume.

idk the whole reason i'm doing this is partially just to have somewhere to relax, and partially to possibly invite eishi there and communicate with him better (less clutter from just communicating with him in my brain) i sorta need somewhere to unwind, my irl situation is quite unhealthy in that my room is so messy that it doesn't seem like a personal space, and i'm too mentally ill to fix it and my mom is busy or something i know that technically i'll be escaping from the issue at hand, but i think until i change meds and am able to get motivation i need somewhere where i can have a personal space

Kei Wendt

isnt tulpamancy sorta escapism though like to create a person just because you need a friend or something

Tulpamancy definitely skirts the border of unhealthy coping or not sometimes. That's why it's important we have a community founded in years of critical discussion and people analyzing each other's experiences, to come up with best-practices and beliefs to keep it as healthy as possible. So general community recommendations like "A tulpa shouldn't replace talking to other human beings" or "Tulpas can't 'randomly turn evil or want to hurt you' unless you believe they will, because your brain has no reason to want to hurt itself." - these aren't objective facts, they are subjective shaping of the phenomenon that we've proven to have healthier and more productive outcomes.

3:07 AM

Meanwhile on Tiktok, this stuff is shaped by the people who get the most views, which are the people who sound the most convincing (or who promise the craziest results)

3:07 AM

A lot of them themselves already being in an unhealthy place mentally to begin with.

i don't want to learn from tiktok though

3:08 AM

does that change anything

And I maintain that "shifting" isn't anything that meditation into visualization can't do.

3:10 AM

And anything that happens while dreaming is just dream control, believing you're "shifting" is no different from believing you have a dream guide that can take control of dreams and change them into whatever you want. (So there's no harm in it, but you should be realistic about how it works)

I'll throw out there that #metaphysics exists so people can talk about meta stuff without having to debate

It's hard for me to not say anything when we're specifically talking about young, influenceable people adopting an unhealthy coping mechanism that literally defines "escapism".

3:12 AM

It's hard for me @ metaphysics discussion in general a lot of the time, but I think I draw the line at young people discussing "shifting". I'll probably debate that kind of discussion no matter where it is.

3:13 AM

See a therapist if you're struggling to cope with life and want professional advice on ways to cope, or actual physical changes you can make to improve things.

Reisen

And I maintain that "shifting" isn't anything that meditation into visualization can't do.

well really what i'm looking to do is just a deeper state of meditation i don't really want to leave this reality; i like it here idk maybe what i want doesn't count as shifting then

I can't even acknowledge "shifting" as an actual term.

3:15 AM

What's physically/mentally happening in your brain is the same thing that can happen with meditation though, yes.

3:15 AM

There are just a good handful of kinds of meditation, so it's not as simple as saying "Shifting is just a meditative state" - but that is close.

Reisen

See a therapist if you're struggling to cope with life and want professional advice on ways to cope, or actual physical changes you can make to improve things.

people make tulpae all the time to cope though and i don't see tulpas coming up as an issue i'm just a little confused

Anyways, tulpamancers have become too lazy to do it in recent years, but meditating for a bit before visualizing/wonderlanding was a staple of early tulpamancy when everyone was still motivated to work really hard at it. It increases your visual clarity (all senses, really) and immersion in your visualization, which assists tulpa development of course, but can also be done on its own.

mmm someone teach me how to have a vivid immersive dive into another world by meditating

3:18 AM

all I get is sleepy from meditating

Kei Wendt

people make tulpae all the time to cope though and i don't see tulpas coming up as an issue i'm just a little confused

Having a tulpa isn't the same as rejecting that reality exists or that things aren't the way they are. Often tulpas even end up helping their hosts deal with life more healthily, too.

Yuka

all I get is sleepy from meditating

Do you meditate in the same place you sleep?

3:19 AM

Or, of course.. You don't meditate around when you go to sleep, right?

3:19 AM

Generally you should sit somewhere other than your bed, and meditate in the middle of the day, for the best results.

Reisen

Having a tulpa isn't the same as rejecting that reality exists or that things aren't the way they are. Often tulpas even end up helping their hosts deal with life more healthily, too.

from my perspective, the point of shifting isn't to reject that reality exists, though as far as i can tell it's more about experiencing desired things in a deep state of meditation

(Though we personally meditate while sitting on the other end of our bed, since that's different enough our brain doesn't associate the place with sleeping)

Kei Wendt

from my perspective, the point of shifting isn't to reject that reality exists, though as far as i can tell it's more about experiencing desired things in a deep state of meditation

I think "the shifting community" is pretty unfocused in its descriptions and goals, which would make sense given the people who make it up. If that description is your goal, I recommend dropping the term "shifting" entirely and just looking into deep meditation and visualization.

when or where has never made a difference and its never boosted my visualization either :(

What kind of meditation do you do/how do you "meditate"?

Reisen

I think "the shifting community" is pretty unfocused in its descriptions and goals, which would make sense given the people who make it up. If that description is your goal, I recommend dropping the term "shifting" entirely and just looking into deep meditation and visualization.

makes sense i suppose the shifting community isn't really... clear on what they're trying to do? im not sure

"Sit there and keep your mind empty" meditation probably won't have many effects at all past light stress relief, "Sit and focus on your breathing" is similar but probably more potent, and "Focus on an internal constant, like a visualized object or pendulum or such" would probably have the best total results of those three as well as increasing visualization quality/immersion.

3:24 AM

But there's kind of a lot of ways to meditate. I'm not even sure which to recommend because everyone who's into meditation seems to have their own preferred techniques.

3:25 AM

(We're no exception - our preferred meditation is sitting and acknowledging any random thoughts that come to mind, addressing concerns we're not consciously processing, making plans and all that - until nothing comes to mind anymore, and we can return to our day with a clear mind and sense of purpose)

3:26 AM

I think ours probably has no real effect on visualization afterwards, though. Just that the overarching "Meditative state" - being very internally focused - is a good time to do visualization in general.

I'm going to bed I'll have to reply tomorrow

Good night, and hopefully you didn't save tulpa/meditation stuff for just before you're going to sleep lol.

3:30 AM

If you can't meditate in a random place during the day without getting tired, I feel like that might just mean you're not getting enough sleep or something. Depending on how strongly you meant it makes you "feel sleepy".

Reisen

Good night, and hopefully you didn't save tulpa/meditation stuff for just before you're going to sleep lol.

it worked for us whenever I still forced, just go to bed a half hour early and pretend to be asleep while I force

6:40 AM

kinda vital if you have to share a bedroom with a normie

6:40 AM

which I did at the time

It's just a classic bad habit to save tulpa stuff until you're going to sleep, and then falling asleep mid-forcing

6:41 AM

Discipline issue

has anyone had anything bad happen from forcing that way?

6:42 AM

I remember like 10 years ago there was some paranoia about messing up your tulpa by falling asleep during forcing sessions

No lol..

6:49 AM

But many annoyed tulpas about their host falling asleep during their time together

Reisen

It's just a classic bad habit to save tulpa stuff until you're going to sleep, and then falling asleep mid-forcing

A bad habit is one with negative consecuences. I see no negative consecuences

Poor quality and length forcing sessions/time spent with your tulpa?

I dont see no poor quality, and you just compensate to get the time you need

hey, I'm new to the community (I have MDD and recently learned more about tulpae after having some experience with them). How do you know when your tulpa is forming? Like do they come all at once or do you gradually see their form take shape?

I would say it's a gradual process where there's usually not a distinct point where they were suddenly "a tulpa" - although a lot of people do have a vocality experience where things get easier from there, some may not and it's just a matter of looking back one day and realizing how much they've developed since the start.

9:49 AM

Though, I don't think any of that has to do with their form. You can imagine a form for them right at the start if you want, and then they just grow a sense of self that associates with it over time.

Okay, thank you! That makes sense! (edited)

@Reisen I usually sit in a chair in my bedroom to meditate or force, but sometimes I sit at my computer desk. Sometimes in the middle of the day, sometimes in the evening. I get enough sleep at night. I've done "observe breath" meditation "observe thoughts" "empty mind" or "observe awareness" if I get to a point where no more thoughts come "stare at a candle" Kasina meditation and that "visualize numbers" tulpa guide one as well as having a tulpa as a focal point if that's considered meditation I think I've tried focusing on a visualized object but that one's the hardest to stay focused on, I get distracted and sleepy more easily.

3:44 PM

I don't see how even visualizing a pendulum would result in entering a mindscape so realistic someone could think they entered a literal different reality

... And have you achieved that?

Visualizing a pendulum?

entering a mindscape so realistic someone could think they entered a literal different reality

No, I'm saying I want to

I could tell you if you count to 10 while your tulpa counts down from 10 that you'll magically become ultra-immersed in your visualization/wonderland too, but that doesn't make it true.

3:52 PM

But whatever, I gave my warnings

3:53 PM

Try what you want

??? You said people could have a "shifting" experience through meditation, and I'm saying, okay how?

Visualization clarity (and immersion) comes from lots of practice

Yuka

??? You said people could have a "shifting" experience through meditation, and I'm saying, okay how?

I said meditation is the normal way to enhance (internal) focus and is often reported as leading to more immersive and vivid tulpamancy experiences.

Reisen

entering a mindscape so realistic someone could think they entered a literal different reality

Tbh Vividness isnt required for this

I don't believe in transporting into a subdimension of your brain and living out a different reality there. Just really immersive visualization attained through practice (mostly of visualization, but meditative states have been said to help by countless people over the years)

its more immersion than vividness i have terrible minds eye strength And i have experienced such a thing

3:58 PM

@Yuka do you have someone irl that you can do mind exercises with?

The only way you're going to experience a sudden, sharp increase in the vividness of an internal experience is if it happens on the border of sleep, like dreaming. There's a theory that what people think of as astral projection is actually something like a lucid dreaming state but while closer to awake than an actual dream, which as I mentioned is probably what people are calling shifting in the case of "doing it while asleep" - but I'm not an expert on this specific concept (I don't think anyone is) (edited)

berockly (TTG)

@Yuka do you have someone irl that you can do mind exercises with?

No

otherwise, vivid-at-will imagined experiences simply take a lot of consistent, focused practice.

(edited)

Yuka

No

Ah Well that helps me with this particular exercise but Your essentially narrating out loud what's happening in the minds eye in detail

3:59 PM

Like image streaming But for dynamic environments with possible plot

4:00 PM

So far for me It has been the single most helpful exercise

4:01 PM

Sadly I barely have opportunities to do it

I want to do image streaming, especially since I found more anecdotes on it greatly improving visualization, but dang. My brain will find any excuse not to

4:05 PM

I'd expect better wonderland immersion would come from more wonderland immersion rather than meditation, though

Yuka

I want to do image streaming, especially since I found more anecdotes on it greatly improving visualization, but dang. My brain will find any excuse not to

Same though

4:07 PM

My attention span for it sucks

4:07 PM

Thats why its helpful to do it with someone

The worst was when I actually set up a voice recorder, I just, didn't want to talk out loud and be recorded

But on another day I managed by skipping the recorder, and just described Aya in the wonderland (edited)

Yuka

The worst was when I actually set up a voice recorder, I just, didn't want to talk out loud and be recorded

But on another day I managed by skipping the recorder, and just described Aya in the wonderland (edited)

I can never get in the mood to actually sit down and do it

Is it okay to not talk to your tulpa for a day or 2?

Yeah. Not the worst.

5:05 PM

It'll be less detrimental the more developed they are, but it's not going to ruin things even if they aren't that fleshed out.

if you leave your baby tulpa unattended for a day the tulpa services visit your head and take your tulpa away

(for the record that's not true)

Man, I'd be the worst father of all time, then.

TiCtAc(✧×✧)

if you leave your baby tulpa unattended for a day the tulpa services visit your head and take your tulpa away

Lmao

5:13 PM

"Your free trial of tulpa has expired"

TiCtAc(✧×✧)

if you leave your baby tulpa unattended for a day the tulpa services visit your head and take your tulpa away

tulpa protection service has arrived

do tulpas know they are tulpas?